What the hell is wrong with them?

After laying in bed thinking today, I realized something. A diva who has been in the industry for one or two years, should be able to act and express emotion effectively. There really is no excuse.

I have been known to jump on the bandwagon of people who really shouldn't be jumped on for any other reason than their bad charismatic abilities. Divas like Eve come to mind. I wanted so much from her, and I didn't want to be let down. Well she let me down, and I see this now. What we get these days is inexcusable, and I ain't sugar coating this crap any longer.

Look at Vickie Guerrero. Who the hell was she before she made her first cameo on live television? She definantly wasn't a model, an actress, or someone specifically trained to show emotion and acting abilities. She was just a regular middle-aged woman who was married to a pro-wrestler. Why is it that she is able to show emotion with ease, bring laughs to our faces and just flat out piss us off? Why is it that Vickie Guerrero is the most charismatic diva in pro wrestling today, in such a short amount of time, with no prior experience?

Don't give me the "oh...But she has had a lot of chances and focus to hone her skills..." Although this is true to a degree, it isn't the true response. You don't just get better by doing segments over and over again...You get better by actually improving.

It just means that people like Eve are boring as all kinds of hell. When she smiles, you don't feel like following suite. You feel like yawning and going "ugh. Her again?" That is the problem with most of the divas. It isn't because they can't do moves like a man. It isn't because they don't get an hour to wrestle. It is because they don't have charisma or persence. Why is it that more people remember what Layla did but not Michelle in those f'n LayCool segments?

I get that faces traditionally don't have the character variation of heels in the WWE. However, that doesn't mean they can't show happiness, sadness, anger, and being baffled. Those are basic human emotions. Boring people don't do that.

eb wrote:

It just means that people like Eve are boring as all kinds of hell. When she smiles, you don't feel like following suite. You feel like yawning and going "ugh. Her again?" That is the problem with most of the divas. It isn't because they can't do moves like a man. It isn't because they don't get an hour to wrestle. It is because they don't have charisma or persence. Why is it that more people remember what Layla did but not Michelle in those f'n LayCool segments?

I get that faces traditionally don't have the character variation of heels in the WWE. However, that doesn't mean they can't show happiness, sadness, anger, and being baffled. Those are basic human emotions. Boring people don't do that.

I couldn't have put it better myself, oh and I remember Layla in the segments because her butt is NICE!!! Her accent is also a huge turn on lol. She's also really sexy.

and she also makes the segment worth watching...because she is an entertainer, who has great comedic timing
Michelle has improved a lot tho

Eve is probably a kid who has gotten by on her looks and her dancing background all of her life. Kelly Kelly? Even less so. Melina? She definitely has tried to play up her sex appeal. It's true..there are no Sensational Sherris' today except for a Portia Perez in Shimmer. Layla still stands out though..she is basically saving McCool from being one of the most pushed failures of all time.

Slow your role buddy, Vickie shrieks! That’s all she ever does. Her voice is fucking grating but the crowd reacts because she’s been in the business for quite a few years (and had chances to get over with STORYLINES!!!!) and I think for some people they legitimately hate her because of her whole storyline with Edge, those are stupid fantards for ya.

But even then she’s not all that charismatic, all she has to say is “EXCUSE ME” and that’s it, instant heat.

I also can’t believe you used Eve Torres as an example of someone with no charisma when ON SMACKDOWN her segments with Cryme Tyme were perfectly fine, certainly better than what Kelly Kelly has ever done.

And NO I won’t jump off of the Eve bandwagon, she has a shit load of haters out there and I’m happy to say I’m not one of them. I think she’ll surprise us if she even turns heel well maybe not the haters cause they need something to bitch about amiright or amiright?

Heel Eve <3

Im sorry blue but i saw everyone one of those Cryme Tyme segments...and Eve was the one who brought it down, she showed no passion, no emotion, no charisma or character at all....she just explained what a word meant and looked prettty

heel Eve? that would most likely made me hate her ass more. a bland, boring heel? Kill me now.


Portia Perez is an awesome heel although sometimes i notice she gets tripped up on her words when she's on the mic.


BTW, Stephanie McMahon > Vickie Guerrero. Vickie can only dream of getting the heat Stephanie got.

To be fair to Eve, I think she has a lot of potential in the ring and yes she is boring, but is it her fault really?

If you take the best 'face' divas; Lita, Chyna, Torrie, early WWE Molly Holly, Trish...they all got what the current divas don't get. Lita and Molly got to be amazing valets that were given spots in matches that showed they could take it to some of the men and the crowd loved it. Torrie and Chyna got backstage segments and time on the mic for fans to start caring about them, and Trish had strong heel opponents like Jazz and Victoria to really get the fans behind her.

These days the likes of Eve are very limited in ways they can try and get support. The only reason fans cared a little about Candice during her title reign was because she was the underdog against Melina and Beth.

Alicia and Maryse are good characters, but they aren't powerful enough to make their opponents look good as well unfortunately...
.

matt_2k10 wrote:

These days the likes of Eve are very limited in ways they can try and get support. The only reason fans cared a little about Candice during her title reign was because she was the underdog against Melina and Beth.

.

LMAO People cared?? Those silent arena's where people caring?

She was getting over?

Oh I forgot this forum is anti Candace!

King Silva wrote:

I don't know.

I do think it is easier to be a heel but Vickie is just amazing at it.

People hate her!

I love her though.

She's really funny to me and I enjoy watching her. :p

Ditto.

Oh, and she's a Cougar too.

matt_2k10 wrote:

To be fair to Eve, I think she has a lot of potential in the ring and yes she is boring, but is it her fault really?

Like I said, she could at least show basic human emotions. When Maryse was teasing her, she could atleast shown some intensity. When Maryse would cheat, she could at least made an angry face.

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If you take the best 'face' divas; Lita, Chyna, Torrie, early WWE Molly Holly, Trish...they all got what the current divas don't get. Lita and Molly got to be amazing valets that were given spots in matches that showed they could take it to some of the men and the crowd loved it. Torrie and Chyna got backstage segments and time on the mic for fans to start caring about them, and Trish had strong heel opponents like Jazz and Victoria to really get the fans behind her.

Trish was over as a heel before becoming a face. Its a little loopy you would ignore Trish's development before her full time in ring stint considering the other women you brought up. BTW, Jazz and Victoria were not worth a damn when they stopped chucking Trish around.

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These days the likes of Eve are very limited in ways they can try and get support. The only reason fans cared a little about Candice during her title reign was because she was the underdog against Melina and Beth.

Eve showed no emotion and she tried to compensate botching moves by adding flashy new moves to botch. As bad as she was at talking with that horrible voice, at least you believed Candice was really happy she won the title.. And Candice actually got good in the ring at one point.

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Alicia and Maryse are good characters, but they aren't powerful enough to make their opponents look good as well unfortunately...
.

I agree Alicia sucks. But Maryse flops around for opponent. She can't help it if her opponent sucks.

Maryse sucks herself missy!!

I do agree that Eve could've displayed some emotion, no defending her there

It's amazing how naturally it comes to Vickie considering how nice she is in real life.

The majority of women that the WWE hire were former models who probably never seen the product in their life, know little to nothing about pro-wrestling, and were hired solely on their looks; many also lack natural charisma since all they know how to do is stand there and look pretty. A lot know nothing about character building, how important it is to show emotions, and how to connect with the fans.

WWE does nothing to help these girls connect with the fans, nor do they do they give them the means to (Character, Promos, on air time, freakin' acting lessons for gods sake!) thus when they inform New Diva #1 that she's going to become the new bad girl on RAW; we get Generic Diva Bitch #12. No buildup as to why she's a heel, no promo to help establish her character as a bad girl, no acting lessons either; just a haughty smirk cuz she's evulz!!1! Another thing working against them is the fact that the company treats female wrestlers as an afterthought, so until the WWE changes and helps these girls go expect more brilliant emotional acting like Maria's lip trembles that made people laugh at her rather than pity her for being dumped.

Speaking of acting, they just don't emote enough during matches leading to much confusion as to why Generic Babyface #10 who just got screwed over by Generic Diva Bitch #12 looks like she's wondering if she left the iron on, rather than pissed off; so the fans can't really feel for them.

Blue I was fooled by those segments too...But she ain't charismatic. Look at 2000-6...Thats charisma, not what we get today. We just take it for granted because we know thats the best we're gonna get. The only current people who are worth a damn in this department are Nattie, Beth, Vickie, Laycool, Melina to some low extent.

Lauren wrote:

The majority of women that the WWE hire were former models who probably never seen the product in their life, know little to nothing about pro-wrestling, and were hired solely on their looks

Successful pro wrestling feds have always treated aesthetics as important as "talent." Try another reason to hate on the modelz plz.

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many also lack natural charisma since all they know how to do is stand there and look pretty. A lot know nothing about character building, how important it is to show emotions, and how to connect with the fans.

Ironic considering the Divas that get the label as "wrestlers" have as equal charisma as most of the "models." Beth, Gail, Michelle, Melina, and Nattie flat out refuse to connect to the crowd. Where's there "they are worthless" tag?

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WWE does nothing to help these girls connect with the fans, nor do they do they give them the means to (Character, Promos, on air time, freakin' acting lessons for gods sake!) thus when they inform New Diva #1 that she's going to become the new bad girl on RAW; we get Generic Diva Bitch #12.

Well, people criticized Maryse for going to acting classes when she was hurt last year instead of "going to wrestling classes." But at the end of the day, if you aren't naturally interesting, then you ain't a good at acting.

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No buildup as to why she's a heel, no promo to help establish her character as a bad girl, no acting lessons either; just a haughty smirk cuz she's evulz!!1!

Vince has always thought that female he was pushing should be a face because they aren't many women he is willing to put the effort into. So, the faces are just as generic.

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Another thing working against them is the fact that the company treats female wrestlers as an afterthought, so until the WWE changes and helps these girls go expect more brilliant emotional acting like Maria's lip trembles that made people laugh at her rather than pity her for being dumped.

Maybe if people would realize that the Divas aren't exactly the Holy Grail for talent, they would feel a little more understanding as to why you gotta be lucky or fuck someone people with morals would leave alone in order to get pushed.

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Speaking of acting, they just don't emote enough during matches leading to much confusion as to why Generic Babyface #10 who just got screwed over by Generic Diva Bitch #12 looks like she's wondering if she left the iron on, rather than pissed off; so the fans can't really feel for them.

So, blame the writers for not seeing the "talent" or blame the "talent" for not taking the opportunity they have?

For Vickie, she was around Eddie for years. What she knows, she undoubtedly learned from him. The man was the master of heel runs, go back through his career.

And Vix brought up a good point about Stephanie getting more heat than Vickie in her heyday which is sad because nobody here seems to remember or saw it....even I hated tha bitch and I LOVED heels, THAT'S how excellent Steph was. Nobody likes the evil boss's daughter and she played it very well.

it is pretty weird how some of the top heels in WWE right now, are the sweetest ppl you could meet backstage eg Vickie and Layla
yet some of the top faces in WWE have a bad reputation for being somewhat of a bitch or goer or both backstage eg Kelly and Melina

eb wrote:

Successful pro wrestling feds have always treated aesthetics as important as "talent." Try another reason to hate on the modelz plz.

Easy, they have no talent, are a waste of time, and because of the practice of hiring models instead of competent wrestlers; many fans have turned away from the women's division viewing anything involving the women as nothing more than a piss break or next clips for botchamania. For the flash in the pan that was Trish Stratus a model that they turned into their top female; you have almost a dozen other girls who were god awful.

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Ironic considering the Divas that get the label as "wrestlers" have as equal charisma as most of the "models." Beth, Gail, Michelle, Melina, and Nattie flat out refuse to connect to the crowd. Where's there "they are worthless" tag?

Other than Michelle who remains a black whole of charisma, those women do have more charisma then the models; and Beth and Melina don't connect with the crowds, that surprises me since those two are arguably the most over women in the WWE right now.

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Well, people criticized Maryse for going to acting classes when she was hurt last year instead of "going to wrestling classes." But at the end of the day, if you aren't naturally interesting, then you ain't a good at acting.

And at the end of the day, if you can't connect with the fans, can't connect with your dropkicks, and can't cut a promo, you shouldn't be on the main roster; let alone in the wrestling business.

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Vince has always thought that female he was pushing should be a face because they aren't many women he is willing to put the effort into. So, the faces are just as generic.

Smiling Diva Babyface #10, yep she's just as Generic as Diva Bitch #12, if not more as I have pointed out.

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Maybe if people would realize that the Divas aren't exactly the Holy Grail for talent, they would feel a little more understanding as to why you gotta be lucky or fuck someone people with morals would leave alone in order to get pushed.

If changes were made, more competent workers were hired, and time and effort were be put in; the WWE could have a damn good women's division. Instead we have a huge mess that they along with the fans treat as a joke, I have never seen a show more put down by the company that booked it than the "All Diva" NXT, so long as this remains the standard as to how they treat their female workers, the archaic and sexist practice of being the fucktoy of someone in the main event to get a push will continue to thrive.

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So, blame the writers for not seeing the "talent" or blame the "talent" for not taking the opportunity they have?

No, I'll blame them both; I'm hardcore.

eb wrote:

Like I said, she could at least show basic human emotions. When Maryse was teasing her, she could atleast shown some intensity. When Maryse would cheat, she could at least made an angry face.

Fair point.

eb wrote:

Trish was over as a heel before becoming a face. Its a little loopy you would ignore Trish's development before her full time in ring stint considering the other women you brought up. BTW, Jazz and Victoria were not worth a damn when they stopped chucking Trish around.

Not really because there have been loads of divas that had good heel characters and then lost all interest in them once they turn face; Ivory after RTC, Jacqueline early 2000...you said it yourself, Victoria was never really over after her feud with Trish ended and she turned face.

Trish was very lucky to have strong opponents that could get her over as the 'determined underdog'. She was still green when she turned face and very limited in offence...if that Trish had have been around now she wouldn't have been nearly as over because only a few divas could have made her look credible. Eve would have had a much better chance back then given the same oppurtunities.

eb wrote:

Eve showed no emotion and she tried to compensate botching moves by adding flashy new moves to botch. As bad as she was at talking with that horrible voice, at least you believed Candice was really happy she won the title.. And Candice actually got good in the ring at one point.

Eve is far more able in the ring than Candice...Candice's best matches had Beth to support her. Regardless of personality, Eve is definitely natural in the ring. She's not great yet but she isn't Maria or Ashley.

Michelle wasn't great when she started but you knew she had the natural ability...I see that in Eve, as well as Tiffany and Layla.

Lauren wrote:

The majority of women that the WWE hire were former models who probably never seen the product in their life, know little to nothing about pro-wrestling, and were hired solely on their looks; many also lack natural charisma since all they know how to do is stand there and look pretty. A lot know nothing about character building, how important it is to show emotions, and how to connect with the fans.

WWE does nothing to help these girls connect with the fans, nor do they do they give them the means to (Character, Promos, on air time, freakin' acting lessons for gods sake!) thus when they inform New Diva #1 that she's going to become the new bad girl on RAW; we get Generic Diva Bitch #12. No buildup as to why she's a heel, no promo to help establish her character as a bad girl, no acting lessons either; just a haughty smirk cuz she's evulz!!1! Another thing working against them is the fact that the company treats female wrestlers as an afterthought, so until the WWE changes and helps these girls go expect more brilliant emotional acting like Maria's lip trembles that made people laugh at her rather than pity her for being dumped.

Speaking of acting, they just don't emote enough during matches leading to much confusion as to why Generic Babyface #10 who just got screwed over by Generic Diva Bitch #12 looks like she's wondering if she left the iron on, rather than pissed off; so the fans can't really feel for them.

Great great post and this definitely stood out to me.

Lauren wrote:

Easy, they have no talent, are a waste of time, and because of the practice of hiring models instead of competent wrestlers; many fans have turned away from the women's division viewing anything involving the women as nothing more than a piss break or next clips for botchamania. For the flash in the pan that was Trish Stratus a model that they turned into their top female; you have almost a dozen other girls who were god awful.

And those models get more attention than the "wrestlers". It's just the way pro wrestling has always worked. Some of the girls were really young (Kelly, Alicia) when they started, so to criticize them for not having a wrestling background is stupid.

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Other than Michelle who remains a black whole of charisma, those women do have more charisma then the models; and Beth and Melina don't connect with the crowds, that surprises me since those two are arguably the most over women in the WWE right now.

Beth over? I guess we weren't watching the same personification of stoicism who's ONLY "bad guy" act was lifting her arms in the air. Other than that, she just does spot after spot after spot regardless of if her opponent can take the move or not.

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And at the end of the day, if you can't connect with the fans, can't connect with your dropkicks, and can't cut a promo, you shouldn't be on the main roster; let alone in the wrestling business.

Okay. Hardly any of the chicks on the roster "connect" with the crowds as their matches get absolutely NO live reaction. The only chicks on the roster who can properly do a dropkick are the Bellas. Maryse and Layla are the only ones with any redeemable mic skills. So, you just called all of the Divas useless. Good job.

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Smiling Diva Babyface #10, yep she's just as Generic as Diva Bitch #12, if not more as I have pointed out.

Can't argue with that.

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If changes were made, more competent workers were hired, and time and effort were be put in; the WWE could have a damn good women's division.

Or maybe if they could try to convince the models to stop getting the wrestling bug? Can you stop acting like pro wrestling is just something like a walk in the park? The "models" go through the same bumps and bruises as the "wrestlers".

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Instead we have a huge mess that they along with the fans treat as a joke, I have never seen a show more put down by the company that booked it than the "All Diva" NXT, so long as this remains the standard as to how they treat their female workers, the archaic and sexist practice of being the fucktoy of someone in the main event to get a push will continue to thrive.

Hope you ain't watching wrestling with that kind of feminist attitude otherwise "Hello, hypocrite!"

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No, I'll blame them both; I'm hardcore.

matt_2k10 wrote:

Fair point.

I have one from time to time.

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Not really because there have been loads of divas that had good heel characters and then lost all interest in them once they turn face; Ivory after RTC, Jacqueline early 2000...you said it yourself, Victoria was never really over after her feud with Trish ended and she turned face.

Uhh.. No. Trish was just as interesting acting like a bitch as she was being someone's bitch.

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Trish was very lucky to have strong opponents that could get her over as the 'determined underdog'.

Trish was a human accordion. You know how I always bitch about Melina's forced contortionist act? Well, Trish was naturally that every time she got her pretty little head thrown.

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She was still green when she turned face and very limited in offence...if that Trish had have been around now she wouldn't have been nearly as over because only a few divas could have made her look credible. Eve would have had a much better chance back then given the same oppurtunities.

Or it could be that Trish is arguably the most charismatic Diva like ever? We all know how most people thought of Trish's looks, but she was much more than that. And if she wasn't plz explain who someone who has had MUCH MUCH stronger booking in her first 5 years and still is as over as a fart in church or how some of the divas now are arguably as hot as Trish, but don't get a response?

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Eve is far more able in the ring than Candice...Candice's best matches had Beth to support her. Regardless of personality, Eve is definitely natural in the ring. She's not great yet but she isn't Maria or Ashley.

Yeah, Eve is athletic. However, in the WWE, you need more than a swank botched move to make a splash.

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Michelle wasn't great when she started but you knew she had the natural ability...I see that in Eve, as well as Tiffany and Layla.

Layla has been the only diva to try to inject some personality in her matches from day one. What do you expect?

eb wrote:

And those models get more attention than the "wrestlers". It's just the way pro wrestling has always worked. Some of the girls were really young (Kelly, Alicia) when they started, so to criticize them for not having a wrestling background is stupid.

No, it is not the way that pro wrestling always worked. A pretty girl with lots of charisma, but no mic skills was kept as a valet. If you had a girl with tons of charisma and mic skills, but no wrestling skills; she would most likely become a the manager/mouthpiece for someone. If you had a girl who was could wrestle, you put her in the women's division. The girl with the mic skills, the charisma, and the wrestling skills; say hello to the champion. Every now and the, you had women who made the transition from one role to the other, but you can bet that before she did the company made damn sure she was ready for such a move. Oh and to criticize those two for being hired while so young and not having a wrestling background, isn't stupid; it's common sense. You don't hire someone without experience for a job, especially a dangerous job like being a wrestler since they can, and most likely will, hurt themselves or the person that they're in the ring with.

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Beth over? I guess we weren't watching the same personification of stoicism who's ONLY "bad guy" act was lifting her arms in the air. Other than that, she just does spot after spot after spot regardless of if her opponent can take the move or not.

Yes, over; crowds cheering for her and everything. Clearly we aren't watching the same program, since the heel Beth I saw bad guy act included bulling her opponents in the ring and backstage, sneak attacks, using her then boyfriend and Rosa to help her cheat in matches, becoming enraged and trying to attack opponents after losses. Beth has been solid in the ring, even in matches where she had to carry her opponents through it and call the moves for them when they're sitting the the corner looking like a lost puppy.

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Okay. Hardly any of the chicks on the roster "connect" with the crowds as their matches get absolutely NO live reaction. The only chicks on the roster who can properly do a dropkick are the Bellas. Maryse and Layla are the only ones with any redeemable mic skills. So, you just called all of the Divas useless. Good job.

Not just me, the majority calls most of them useless and on a show devoted totally to them, they got buried by the damn announcer...on air...hard. As for the female wrestlers like Beth, Melina, and so on who actually know how to do the moves, connect with the crowd, and do get the reactions; you won't see any complaints about their skills...booking them however is another story.

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Or maybe if they could try to convince the models to stop getting the wrestling bug? Can you stop acting like pro wrestling is just something like a walk in the park? The "models" go through the same bumps and bruises as the "wrestlers".

If they did take the same bumps and bruises and did so correctly, Botchomania wouldn't have so much material.

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Hope you ain't watching wrestling with that kind of feminist attitude otherwise "Hello, hypocrite!"

Yo Pot, stop calling me Black.

Signed, Lauren aka Kettle.

P.S. I'll continue to watch it with any kind of attitude I want.

So, you are just upset that the "wrestlers" are just as bad as the "models"?