Raw Diva Thread For July 11th

Kelly beat Melina

Kelly > Melina, believe that

I liked the match it was good.

Kelly Kelly continues to get a well deserved push.

i want melina fired

I'm tired of Kelly

Eve still ran in slow motion though she was running full speed

I want Brie to disappear and Nikki to win the belt

I refused to watch the match, bellas thing sucked, they aren't laycool

The Sexy Vixen wrote:

Eve still ran in slow motion though she was running full speed

Because she was wearing heels, stupidest thing to do if you're making a save

wasnt that Brie who messed up on the mic with her Katy Perry joke? lol FAIL

So...

Melina goes from big PPV battles with the likes of Trish, Mickie, and Beth to being quickly squashed by that wrestling machine, that unstoppable monster, Kelly Kelly.

Somebody fell down the ladder...

Shes always been at the bottom of that 'ladder'. xD

Kelly Kelly did such an amazing job. She is an awesome champ

Queen Mintz wrote:

The Sexy Vixen wrote:

Eve still ran in slow motion though she was running full speed

Because she was wearing heels, stupidest thing to do if you're making a save

What's wrong with it? I find it absolutaly normal to see a Diva run down in Heels.

It gives it a bit of realism. I mean if she came down wearing boets or wrestling gear is kinda dumb since....well why the hell would she be wearing it in the first place if she's not booked in a match?

Also what are peoples issue with how fast someone runs? I mean we are not all natural quick runners? Just seems to me people are just looking for reasons to make fun of a diva. I mean make of the fact that 90% of the time she seems to get tangled into the ropes whenever she tries to slide into the ring. That's actually funny.

But seriously? are you that low? Well let's hope WWE doesn't hire any fat girls any time soon, wonder how much they'll get teased for taking 10 seconds to make it to the ring.

and nobody seems to make any comments about Kharma needing three minutes to get to the ring

you people didn't honestly expect Melina to win did you? the match was fine for what it was meant to do. Kelly broke out of her usual move set and Melina got some nice offence in. i'm in two minds about that after match segment. the promo was just them trying to be LayCool. what, are they gonna have the twins co-hold the title next? think up a new gimmick other than the typical high school mean girls crap. and Nikki, you will not be forgiven for that Katy Perry goof. the beatdown was much better and it was a good way to build momentum into the title match and make the Bellas look like credible heels. i guess Eve will be in Kelly's corner going into the PPV. and of course the age old question of who Kelly is going to feud with when she beats Brie. i was thinking Melina but maybe she should start showing up on Smackdown and challenging Alicia

Lucky 7 wrote:

Queen Mintz wrote:

The Sexy Vixen wrote:

Eve still ran in slow motion though she was running full speed

Because she was wearing heels, stupidest thing to do if you're making a save

What's wrong with it? I find it absolutaly normal to see a Diva run down in Heels.

It gives it a bit of realism. I mean if she came down wearing boets or wrestling gear is kinda dumb since....well why the hell would she be wearing it in the first place if she's not booked in a match?

Also what are peoples issue with how fast someone runs? I mean we are not all natural quick runners? Just seems to me people are just looking for reasons to make fun of a diva. I mean make of the fact that 90% of the time she seems to get tangled into the ropes whenever she tries to slide into the ring. That's actually funny.

But seriously? are you that low? Well let's hope WWE doesn't hire any fat girls any time soon, wonder how much they'll get teased for taking 10 seconds to make it to the ring.

the trick is...to take your shoes off...like Maryse did when she chased down Aksana. running in heels runs the risk of breaking your damn neck..esp running down the slope of the ramp.

it would've made more sense for Eve to take the heels off.

That's beside the point.....we've seen many fights in Heels before.....never an issue.....enjoyed them very much.

she was in heels which caused her to look silly running at full speed yet still appearing to be at a jog lol

it would've been more realisitic if she took her shoes off and broke out into a full sprint.

i mean she was trying to save Kelly from serious injury..why would you jog casually to the ring to save someone? time is a factor...you need to get there ASAP.

Would seem weirder to see someone rnning out from backstage with no shoes on.

Makes it seems she's been walking around backstage with no shoes on waiting to run out.

Seems more realistic imo. She's got one thing on her mind, save kelly.....shoe's wasn't an issue.

i've seen divas leave their shoes on the stage...
--

ok Kevin you win..i'm done messin with you.

King Silva wrote:

Yeah they both sucked though..

Where is NCD to say, 'SMH..'.

Why would I say that?

I missed the Divas action yesterday, so I'm kinda lost.

Lucky 7 wrote:

Queen Mintz wrote:

The Sexy Vixen wrote:

Eve still ran in slow motion though she was running full speed

Because she was wearing heels, stupidest thing to do if you're making a save

What's wrong with it? I find it absolutaly normal to see a Diva run down in Heels.

It gives it a bit of realism. I mean if she came down wearing boets or wrestling gear is kinda dumb since....well why the hell would she be wearing it in the first place if she's not booked in a match?

Also what are peoples issue with how fast someone runs? I mean we are not all natural quick runners? Just seems to me people are just looking for reasons to make fun of a diva. I mean make of the fact that 90% of the time she seems to get tangled into the ropes whenever she tries to slide into the ring. That's actually funny.

But seriously? are you that low? Well let's hope WWE doesn't hire any fat girls any time soon, wonder how much they'll get teased for taking 10 seconds to make it to the ring.

It's just stupid to run in heels if you're making a save. She could've had regular shoes on and she would've been able to run and make the save, she ran just fine the last time which I think was last week. Also, I've seen fat people run faster than Eve, just look at Mark Henry last night

She tried to steal a line from Sheamus but said unnurtured.

ricky_says_hi wrote:

and nobody seems to make any comments about Kharma needing three minutes to get to the ring

you people didn't honestly expect Melina to win did you? the match was fine for what it was meant to do. Kelly broke out of her usual move set and Melina got some nice offence in. i'm in two minds about that after match segment. the promo was just them trying to be LayCool. what, are they gonna have the twins co-hold the title next? think up a new gimmick other than the typical high school mean girls crap. and Nikki, you will not be forgiven for that Katy Perry goof. the beatdown was much better and it was a good way to build momentum into the title match and make the Bellas look like credible heels. i guess Eve will be in Kelly's corner going into the PPV. and of course the age old question of who Kelly is going to feud with when she beats Brie. i was thinking Melina but maybe she should start showing up on Smackdown and challenging Alicia

I'm not saying Melina should be Champion. The backstage antics she's been pulling since her indy days that have made her the enemy of everyone not named Morrison or Batista make her an unsuitable Champion. But, again, this is someone who used to go toe to toe in PPVs with Trish, Mickie, and Beth. It doesn't make sense for someone who can take them on to get squashed by 108 pound Kelly Kelly.

Yes, I know, eye candy. Yes, I know, PG Era, so they can't look like they're in a real fight. They sure as hell can't let them take chair shots to the head. But, we're stil supposed to buy these girls as athletes. WWE keeps sctratching their heads wondering why they can't get the Division over like it was during the 2001-06 run, why instead of tearing down the house like they used to, Diva matches on a card now get dismissed with "Bathroom break."

To compare... You know who the lightest Women's Champion was during the 01-06 Era, the tiny, scrappy, little underdog taking on all these women who outweighed her and beating them with her speed and skill? Mickie James. That was tiny in the Division's last great era.

I just don't see how having Championship matches dismissed as "Bathroom break" is good for the Division, gets the Divas over, increases their marketablility (the most important thing at the end of the day).

It's too bad they don't have a charasmatic attractive wrestler on the roster that can get the crowd into it during a 10 minute match... Oh wait, as we just saw on Superstars, they do.

Why not give Natalya a push at this point? It's not like charsimatic, attractive, blonde Canadian women who can put on great matches didn't work really well for them in the past. In fact, that other attractive blonde Canadian woman describes Nattie as "untapped." And, who would know better about getting the Division over than her?

because Kelly is more over than Nattie. back when Trish was champion she was far from the best wrestler on the roster but she got the best reactions. Lita did as well but she was busy in an angle with Team Xtreme and then she was injured. now that Kharma's out for a while, they need to use a diva the crowds love. people were still voting for Kelly in the viewer's choice after the match was over. she's popular so they're building on that. the Bellas have been getting some actual heel heat for picking on her. i enjoyed Nattie as champion but loads of people were calling her boring and i enjoyed Eve's reign a lot more because they were booking her properly. if they'd actually developed a proper feud with the Bellas then maybe her reign wouldn't have felt like an anti-climax

i wouldn't say this segment was a bathroom break. it was the Raw before a PPV and they actually got a decent build up. this match was announced weeks in advance which is a rarity so it got some actual hype for the match. the Bellas beating down on Kelly means more than just angry stares and hand gestures

ricky_says_hi wrote:

because Kelly is more over than Nattie. back when Trish was champion she was far from the best wrestler on the roster but she got the best reactions. Lita did as well but she was busy in an angle with Team Xtreme and then she was injured.

Molly and Jazz had Trish beat in pure technical skill.

That. Was. It.

And what about when Lita wasn't injured? Molly, for all her pure technical skill, couldn't work a classic match with Lita. Trish could, time and again. And only Trish could.

It takes more than pure technical ability to be a great pro wrestler. There's charisma, mic skills, in ring psychology, and adaptability, how to adapt to the strengths and weaknesses of whoever your opponent is, and work a great match. The ability to adapt is why Trish could work classic matches with Lita and Molly couldn't. Trish could adjust to fit Lita's Lucha Libre style, while Molly worked the same mat oriented technical style every time, trying to do the same exact match with Lita that she did all the time with Trish and Victoria.

Being the total package was a huge part of why HBK and the Rock were so great, as well. Were there better pure technicians than those two? Plenty. But name one woman there when Trish was that was the total package she was, who had as many classics with different people as she did.

When Kelly does that, you can compare her to Trish. Do you think she can?

Quote :

now that Kharma's out for a while, they need to use a diva the crowds love. people were still voting for Kelly in the viewer's choice after the match was over. she's popular so they're building on that. the Bellas have been getting some actual heel heat for picking on her. i enjoyed Nattie as champion but loads of people were calling her boring and i enjoyed Eve's reign a lot more because they were booking her properly. if they'd actually developed a proper feud with the Bellas then maybe her reign wouldn't have felt like an anti-climax

i wouldn't say this segment was a bathroom break. it was the Raw before a PPV and they actually got a decent build up. this match was announced weeks in advance which is a rarity so it got some actual hype for the match. the Bellas beating down on Kelly means more than just angry stares and hand gestures

About crowd reactions... Back in May 2004, the big title feud being built was Victoria and Gail Kim, building to a big showdown at Bad Blood. But, compare the crowd noise during the match on Raw between these two in May, and a match a couple of women who'd been kept out of the title picture for several months, in the heel's case over a year...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKM_PEuHqJw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yqz8WkikZek

The relative crowd noise during the matches caused plans to be changed. The two lower carders got hotshotted into the Bad Blood match, with the heel winning, leading to a several month feud between the two for the Championship, now considered the Diva feud.

And what's it say for how over the Diva matches were overall when the crowd for the Victoria/Gail match was considered too quiet? Now, they'd be thrilled to get half that crowd response.

Now, if we follow the 2004 rule in 2011 of who's getting the crowd going during the match, not just during the entrance music...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FSqAOXx-ss

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rb1tWEBYcTs

...who should be chasing the Championship? Never mind comparing her crowd response to Trish's, Kelly isn't as over as Gail was in 2004. Hell, never mind Gail, Stacy Keibler got the crowds more into her matches.

Nattie and Alicia, without any push or promotion, buried on Superstars, get the crowd into their match more that the heavily pushed Kelly and whichever Bella sister.

And yes, I know, different era, these aren't the Old School Divas... Seems so weird that Trish, Lita, Molly, Victoria, etc, are called Old School like a Ric Flair/Dusty Rhodes NWA match from the '80s or something. It wasn't that long ago... The Old School Diva Match formula can't work any more, people say. You just can't get the crowds into their matches like that, now.

Well, why not?

Women Wrestling draw always been for male fans to be attracted to the wrestlers rarely ever about wrestling. The Reason Trish was over was because of her looks. People liked Stacy Keibler looks and Lita was liked for her punk look. That's why people ignored Trish's Flaws and alot of them when wrestling because it was about how they looked to the male fans.

Angelus wrote:

Women Wrestling draw always been for male fans to be attracted to the wrestlers rarely ever about wrestling. The Reason Trish was over was because of her looks. People liked Stacy Keibler looks and Lita was liked for her punk look. That's why people ignored Trish's Flaws and alot of them when wrestling because it was about how they looked to the male fans.

And the good looks of the young Hulk Hogan and Ric Flair, not to mention Bret Hart, Sting, the Ultimate Warrior, Shawn Michaels, Kevin Nash, Triple H, the Rock, Chris Jericho, Edge, Jeff Hardy, John Cena, and John Morrison had nothing to do with their popularity, right? Even Austin was considered a "pretty boy" when he was first coming up. A huge part of the Undertaker's rise was a lot of girls loved his charisma and persona.

Double standard, much? Or, do you attriblute Hogan's success to his incredible technical skills?

Why do you bash the top female wrestlers for having sex appeal as part of what made them, but not the men?

Mick Foley is the sole exception when it comes to having that level of popuarity. He's always called the most unlikely guy ever to do it. What made him so unlikely? He didn't have "the right look."

What do you think they meant by "the right look?"

Angelus wrote:

Women Wrestling draw always been for male fans to be attracted to the wrestlers rarely ever about wrestling. The Reason Trish was over was because of her looks. People liked Stacy Keibler looks and Lita was liked for her punk look. That's why people ignored Trish's Flaws and alot of them when wrestling because it was about how they looked to the male fans.

It's not always the case. You don't get over because of your "looks". I mean the girls in the WWE aren't ugly but they aren't over now are they?

Trish had personality,and charm, so did Stacey, Torrie, Lita.

We've had many girls jiggle their boobs for the boys...but only a select few got the crowds attention, why? They had something the crowd was drawn too. You can't say boobs because Stacey had non, you can't say looks because Lita wasn't your typical Diva.

They stood out, they had personality.

Lauren Jones and Rochelle Loewen had looks, had boobs, but the crowd didn't care....and the fact that you mighten even remember them, proves.....it's not just about her looks.

Say what you want about trish, she wasn't the best in the ring, nor would she never be...but she was damn decent in the ring. and grew from the trainwreck she was to the point where she could carry less exoperienced females.

I think the difference is more that WWE degrades the divas I mean wwe in the attitude era pushed nothing but sex why it is gotten better in this era I think Vince will always hire divas based on looks or he can get so money off of them being different. Isis the Amazon and Kharma got the same appeal that Chyna did they were different looking by no means do I consider what they are doing right but I don't ever see it changing till Vince and Triple H are gone. I mean they go out and signed models they pushed the bella twins up the main roster cause they were two nice looking women who were twins and told Vince if they didn't go they were gonna leave for modeling. There is many talented women wrestlers down in Mexico and in Japan. I mean some are even from the US who are way better skill set and don't got the look Vince Wants. I wouldn't say Vince don't do that with male wrestlers cause they said he liked his wrestler mainly to be roided up for they go a look that they could really beat up people. Which sadly pushed away many talented wrestlers out of wwe. That being said none of these women wrestlers wwe signed even come close to put on type of matches like Cm Punk,Undertaker,HBK,Stonecold,The Rock cause their was never time and Vince wanted to go with matches like pudding matches and stuff like that where he capitlize on there bodies. I ain't trying to take anything away from them but sadly when we talk about the high spot of women wrestling being in that era it's still bad because we never got to see them given a chance to put on classic matches that could take time. He was trying to sell male audience on sex symbol divas. Sadly I think it still shows even now with these 2 or 3 minute matches which is all vince gave them really I mean we really don't know in the end if they are talented as made out to be really cause they were never given much time in matches. I mean atleast in the end the male wrestlers were given matches with time that didn't degrade them. So I mean difference still in the way they were being judged by the fans.

Vince doesn't just push "roided up" freaks. he tends to go for charisma more than anything else. Big Show, Great Khali and Mark Henry have never really been legit world title contenders. they've just been given filler pushes and dropped when they're done

the crowds do love Kelly. they don't love her as much as Mickie or Trish but she gets good reactions. the pop she got at Elimination Chamber was brilliant. she does have that something that draws the crowd in. she's the adorable girl next door type like Torrie Wilson. if someone ever wanted to get over as a legit heel then they'd just have to threaten Torrie in some way. her and Kelly just have the looks of girls the people want to go and hug when they're in trouble. even i felt a little sorry for Kelly when she got fired. it wouldn't have had the same impact if it had happened to say Nattie, Gail or Melina. and Kelly has developed a proper in ring character for herself, she can be the fiesty aggressive type like Torrie and Trish and she's good at getting the crowd going

The Women's Championship matches at PPVs from 2001-06 that Jaqueline, Ivory, Lita, Trish, Molly, Jazz, Victoria, Gail, Melina, and Mickie put on were "pudding matches"? Really? Don't remember seeing any pudding in those. I do remember seeing things like one of them losing half a tooth (Wrestlemania 19).

I am talkin on general tv weather it was ppv or non ppv they always resorted to lame gimmick matches a lot still more then wrestling match they would even find ways when they wrestled to make it about there looks or sex with Mickie James actting like a Lesbian with Trish Stratus.

There was the occasional gimmick match, yes. "A lot more"? No. I suppose you're counting street fights, cage matches, and tables matches among the gimmick matches, right? I also don't consider unprotected chair shots to the head to be very fluffy or sexy.

As far as gay angles and gimmicks... Adrian Adonis? Goldust? (though that was more about ambiguity) Billy & Chuck?

in gimmick matches I mean normally where they focused on looks sadly more then the talent I ain't saying they ain't talented. I mean instead of them doing bikini contests and stuff that would be degrading they should of been treated like the superstars. I was happy they allowed them to do street fights and table matches I think those are good for them cause they are being treated the same as the superstar and not looked at for how they look but how talented they can be in the ring.

the bikini contests slowly went away in the Ruthless Aggression era. eventually they were only on Smackdown where the eye candy divas were and even then they were used for feuds between Torrie and Sable, and Torrie and Dawn. the men have done things like that as well, like Triple H and Scott Steiner pose off as well as Billy & Chuck vs Stacy & Torrie. and let's not forget the masterlock challenges

true in 2002 Trish did occasionally have to participate in T&A gimmick matches but the girls back then did try to make them more about wrestling. there's a bikini match between Nidia and Torrie and the wrestling in it is quite good. as far as i can remember the last time a proper T&A match was on PPV was that Evening Gown in a pool match at Armageddon. even Trish herself has said that there is a place for T&A in WWE since you do have beautiful women there, just not too much of it

Minterz, what Kev was trying to say was that it isn't about what is easier to run to the ring with, its what is more realistic. What are the odds Eve would be wwearing runners or wrestling boots if she didn't have a match? She'd be backstage in heels, watching the monitor or whatever.