What will happen with the Divas of Doom?

Will there be a third party to join them in their fight against Barbie Divas?


Will they eventually be forgotten about, while the likes of Kelly and Eve are continually pushed?

I will get bored of their lack of charisma. They will eventually win the title.

The LL Father wrote:

I will get bored of their lack of charisma. They will eventually win the title.

And go down in history as having the lamest of name ever.

LOL Yeah, it doesn't get much worse than that.

IK we're in a PG era, but c'mon... you can do MUCH better than that.

I expect them to win the title and be a big fail.

I will bring this up right now for all the people who complained about McCool can start complaining about Beth cause she is gonna be jammed down the fans throat cause she is with Punk.

nattie lacks carisma, im sorry but she doesndt have it, beth was good when she was uber heel friends with no other woman, thats the beth i liked. bring back the crazy bitch who has no remorse. Nattie go manage tyson kidd,.

They need to start attacking divas and reeking havok, since they formed they haven't done anything but lose.

I think a third member who has charisma, may help them a little bit.

Like Layla????

NOO!!! SUNNY!!!! IN AN EPIC RETURN!!!

I think Tamina wouldn't be a bad choice, though I'd prefer Gail... but we all know her status.

I wont care about them until Nattie goes back to being a redhead

Angelus wrote:

I expect them to win the title and be a big fail.

I will bring this up right now for all the people who complained about McCool can start complaining about Beth cause she is gonna be jammed down the fans throat cause she is with Punk.

What's been "a big fail" is a Women's Division that's turned into, for most fans, the "bathroom break."

Michelle caught a lot of flack because the company was pushing her and pushing her and pushing her as The Next Trish Stratus. That worked as well as the previous attempts to create The Next Trish Stratus (Mickie, Melina, and, to a degree, Beth).

But, since she retired, the fans have gained an appreiciation of Michelle, and miss her. We can thank the Bellas and Kelly for making fans realize what they had in Michelle.

So, unable to create the Next Trish Stratus, the tried doing The Next Sable with Kelly Kelly, the approach being "Yeah, she can't wreslte very well, but she's HOT!" Problems with that are you can't really do a full scale Next Sable in the PG Era, and, since Sable, we had several years of women that could wrestle. If what's holding JoMo back (aside from the backstage issues) is he doesn't come off as someone who could really beat someone up, the same goes for Kelly. She's just not a believable Champion.

As far as how popular Kelly actually is... Yeah, she was on Maxim's Top 100 list of hottest women. But Trish, in 2011, retired for five years, is still getting more magazine covers than any of the current crop of Divas, including Kelly and Eve. None of the current crop of Divas has proven as marketable, currently, as one long retired one running a yoga studio in Toronto.

And that, JoMo, is why she got the Wrestlemania match instead of your girlfriend. Yoga poses > Booty popping, splits, & stink faces. Pinup Strong.

All this really proves is there was only One Trish Stratus. She's not something you can just create. But... That doesn't mean they can't build on what she, and the other great women wrestlers of that time, represented.





There were prettier women than Trish out there. Even among the then crop of Divas, there were prettier girls. But, what Trish, Lita, Victoria, etc, represented was the idea that a girl can be sexy and strong, that she could look good and kick ass. That's what made the women there unique, and especially marketable, the fact that they weren't those dime a dozen skinny Barbie doll swimsuit models. That's what made even Chyna so marketable, beause that's what she represented (the character "Chyna", not the woman playing her on TV). Trish was able to do what Joanie couldn't and sustain that out of the ring because that's who she actually is in real life.

Which brings us to Beth, Nattie, and their Pin-up Strong campaign, which happens to be endorsed by, as you would expect, Trish. And who knows what works best for getting Divas over and making them marketable than Trish? Or, a better question would be who knows more about what made Trish Stratus marketable than Trish?

There was a great piece someone wrote on the subject here...

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/pin-up+strong

Quote :

I will never be Kelly Kelly.

But I don’t want to be.

I am not built to be Kelly Kelly sized. I never have been. I am not genetically inclined to be small or petite and no matter how many miles I run, how little I eat, how long I spend in a gym…I cannot and will not be Kelly Kelly sized.

But it isn’t just Kelly Kelly and I don’t want to pull her out as the main source of angst in this body image discussion. She just fits the perfect (and I use that loosely) body type image. Take any Diva, any cover girl on any magazine and I just cannot fit that image. It took me a long, long time to realize that this was an okay concept because really, when that is all you’re bombarded with, it doesn’t feel okay. You feel like you’re failing. Isn’t that a sad statement? You’re healthy, but not skinny, so you automatically lose some weird game life plays.

When I went to the Arnold Classic, I met Jennifer Nicole Lee, a fitness model who lives by the motto “Strong is the new skinny!” It was a great concept and something I really embraced. Maybe I didn’t need to be a twig, but instead be fit and strong. I loved the idea. I would rather hang with the boys in the gym than keep up with the girls on the ellipticals anyway. But even Jennifer seemed out of reach. There was something over the top about her beauty and sex appeal. I’m average, not bombshell, and she was just Kelly Kelly with more personality.

But before I found JNL and her philosophy, I had been intrigued by Beth Phoenix. Beth Phoenix, to borrow a phrase, is amazeballs. Not only is she gorgeous, but she can pick you up over her head. She could destroy your face, but she’s still feminine. She’s not your typical Diva. She may be the anti-Diva, but there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, I love that about her.

What always struck me about Beth, too, was that she wasn’t a fragile looking girl. She had curves. She had muscle. She was real. Wanting a body like Beth’s would take time and effort, but it was attainable. It fit my body. I could be, on a lesser scale, Beth Phoenix.

I had a new option.

Lately, Beth has promoted the idea of “pin up strong” and the idea really struck me. Pin up girls were sexy, but not over the top. They could be your girl next door in some cases and Beth’s just that. She’s the girl next door, but she’s strong, she’s tough. She has great gams but they come from time on a squat rack and they aren’t twigs.

And here is where I find my inspiration. Whenever I find myself wavering in a workout, I think of Beth, as silly as that may sound. Would she go for one more push up? One more pull up? Would she try more weight?

I don’t want to aim for something I can’t be. I can’t be Kelly Kelly.

But I can be pin up strong.

It's the same thing Trish promotes to kids when she takees her Women's Championship belt to her personal appearances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypWQ04kQ-7M

WWE has a very nice opportunity here, if they take it.

I don't appriciate or miss Michelle, i thank the lord everyday her ass is gone.

If they last til next year they can bring in Kong. Right now I'm really loving them and really hope and think Beth is getting the belt very soon.

That would be decent, but Kong is so far from returning, I just don't see DOD lasting for a year.

I think Tamina would be a fantastic choice to add to the faction. She would fit their role as non-models. I think she has a lot of potential in the ring. I also think this would be a good choice because she would provide a DOD member that could take some losses to give the "model" girls a fighting chance. Because, let's face it, Beth or Natalya could wipe the floor with every one of the other women on the roster. There is nothing believable at all about Kelly Kelly or Eve pinning Beth or Natalya.

perceval wrote:

Angelus wrote:

I expect them to win the title and be a big fail.

I will bring this up right now for all the people who complained about McCool can start complaining about Beth cause she is gonna be jammed down the fans throat cause she is with Punk.

What's been "a big fail" is a Women's Division that's turned into, for most fans, the "bathroom break."

Michelle caught a lot of flack because the company was pushing her and pushing her and pushing her as The Next Trish Stratus. That worked as well as the previous attempts to create The Next Trish Stratus (Mickie, Melina, and, to a degree, Beth).

But, since she retired, the fans have gained an appreiciation of Michelle, and miss her. We can thank the Bellas and Kelly for making fans realize what they had in Michelle.

So, unable to create the Next Trish Stratus, the tried doing The Next Sable with Kelly Kelly, the approach being "Yeah, she can't wreslte very well, but she's HOT!" Problems with that are you can't really do a full scale Next Sable in the PG Era, and, since Sable, we had several years of women that could wrestle. If what's holding JoMo back (aside from the backstage issues) is he doesn't come off as someone who could really beat someone up, the same goes for Kelly. She's just not a believable Champion.

As far as how popular Kelly actually is... Yeah, she was on Maxim's Top 100 list of hottest women. But Trish, in 2011, retired for five years, is still getting more magazine covers than any of the current crop of Divas, including Kelly and Eve. None of the current crop of Divas has proven as marketable, currently, as one long retired one running a yoga studio in Toronto.

And that, JoMo, is why she got the Wrestlemania match instead of your girlfriend. Yoga poses > Booty popping, splits, & stink faces. Pinup Strong.

All this really proves is there was only One Trish Stratus. She's not something you can just create. But... That doesn't mean they can't build on what she, and the other great women wrestlers of that time, represented.





There were prettier women than Trish out there. Even among the then crop of Divas, there were prettier girls. But, what Trish, Lita, Victoria, etc, represented was the idea that a girl can be sexy and strong, that she could look good and kick ass. That's what made the women there unique, and especially marketable, the fact that they weren't those dime a dozen skinny Barbie doll swimsuit models. That's what made even Chyna so marketable, beause that's what she represented (the character "Chyna", not the woman playing her on TV). Trish was able to do what Joanie couldn't and sustain that out of the ring because that's who she actually is in real life.

Which brings us to Beth, Nattie, and their Pin-up Strong campaign, which happens to be endorsed by, as you would expect, Trish. And who knows what works best for getting Divas over and making them marketable than Trish? Or, a better question would be who knows more about what made Trish Stratus marketable than Trish?

There was a great piece someone wrote on the subject here...

http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/pin-up+strong

Quote :

I will never be Kelly Kelly.

But I don’t want to be.

I am not built to be Kelly Kelly sized. I never have been. I am not genetically inclined to be small or petite and no matter how many miles I run, how little I eat, how long I spend in a gym…I cannot and will not be Kelly Kelly sized.

But it isn’t just Kelly Kelly and I don’t want to pull her out as the main source of angst in this body image discussion. She just fits the perfect (and I use that loosely) body type image. Take any Diva, any cover girl on any magazine and I just cannot fit that image. It took me a long, long time to realize that this was an okay concept because really, when that is all you’re bombarded with, it doesn’t feel okay. You feel like you’re failing. Isn’t that a sad statement? You’re healthy, but not skinny, so you automatically lose some weird game life plays.

When I went to the Arnold Classic, I met Jennifer Nicole Lee, a fitness model who lives by the motto “Strong is the new skinny!” It was a great concept and something I really embraced. Maybe I didn’t need to be a twig, but instead be fit and strong. I loved the idea. I would rather hang with the boys in the gym than keep up with the girls on the ellipticals anyway. But even Jennifer seemed out of reach. There was something over the top about her beauty and sex appeal. I’m average, not bombshell, and she was just Kelly Kelly with more personality.

But before I found JNL and her philosophy, I had been intrigued by Beth Phoenix. Beth Phoenix, to borrow a phrase, is amazeballs. Not only is she gorgeous, but she can pick you up over her head. She could destroy your face, but she’s still feminine. She’s not your typical Diva. She may be the anti-Diva, but there is nothing wrong with that. In fact, I love that about her.

What always struck me about Beth, too, was that she wasn’t a fragile looking girl. She had curves. She had muscle. She was real. Wanting a body like Beth’s would take time and effort, but it was attainable. It fit my body. I could be, on a lesser scale, Beth Phoenix.

I had a new option.

Lately, Beth has promoted the idea of “pin up strong” and the idea really struck me. Pin up girls were sexy, but not over the top. They could be your girl next door in some cases and Beth’s just that. She’s the girl next door, but she’s strong, she’s tough. She has great gams but they come from time on a squat rack and they aren’t twigs.

And here is where I find my inspiration. Whenever I find myself wavering in a workout, I think of Beth, as silly as that may sound. Would she go for one more push up? One more pull up? Would she try more weight?

I don’t want to aim for something I can’t be. I can’t be Kelly Kelly.

But I can be pin up strong.

It's the same thing Trish promotes to kids when she takees her Women's Championship belt to her personal appearances.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypWQ04kQ-7M

WWE has a very nice opportunity here, if they take it.

I may very well be alone in my opinion here and this isn't meant to be offensive. But, I am getting tired of EVERYTHING being compared back to Trish Stratus. Trish wasn't the best woman to ever compete in the company. Even if she was, she has retired. This is a new crop of women and the constant comparison to the golden days (and Trish in particular) isn't really fair. I can appreciate your knowledge of the Diva's and it is very refreshing. But I would find your long and very knowledgeable posts much more enjoyable to read if they didn't always refer back to Trish when she has nothing to do with the topic.

I think this is going to end the same way Nexus did, they start off slightly entertaining then they start jobbing to people that you know they shouldn't be losing to, then they'll lose all credibility. Hell it's already started happening, since they've formed this little team they've done nothing but lose to Kelly.

Completely agree Shimmer Mark. Trish though charismatic and a good wrestler is the be all and end all of the divas division and we can't keep constantly comparing what we have now to days gone by.

As for anyone else joining them, I too think Taminas the only logical choice. I'm enjoying the storyline so far. Beth and Nattie are two of my favourites and the match quality has improved a lot recently.at least they're doing something with the divas and making an effort.

Shimmer Mark wrote:

I think Tamina would be a fantastic choice to add to the faction. She would fit their role as non-models. I think she has a lot of potential in the ring. I also think this would be a good choice because she would provide a DOD member that could take some losses to give the "model" girls a fighting chance. Because, let's face it, Beth or Natalya could wipe the floor with every one of the other women on the roster. There is nothing believable at all about Kelly Kelly or Eve pinning Beth or Natalya.

I may very well be alone in my opinion here and this isn't meant to be offensive. But, I am getting tired of EVERYTHING being compared back to Trish Stratus. Trish wasn't the best woman to ever compete in the company. Even if she was, she has retired. This is a new crop of women and the constant comparison to the golden days (and Trish in particular) isn't really fair. I can appreciate your knowledge of the Diva's and it is very refreshing. But I would find your long and very knowledgeable posts much more enjoyable to read if they didn't always refer back to Trish when she has nothing to do with the topic.

As I've said before, would we be complaining about Kelly and how believable a Champion she is if our point of comparison was the Sable/Debra/Miss Kitty era?

No, the entire issue of being believable is a result of the 2001-06 group. How is it not "really fair" to compare the current Diva product to what WWE managed to do, then? We always talk about how much better TNA's Knockouts Division is compared to the current WWE Divas, and what was the Knockouts Division their attempt to recreate? Answer: The magic of the 2001-06 WWE Women's Division. The Knockouts Championship was even created for one of the women from that WWE period: Gail Kim.

The 2001-06 group raised the profile of women's wrestling to the point that it inspired the creation of an entire promotion. Maybe you've heard of it. It's called Shimmer.

So, why is it "not really fair" to think WWE should be able to get somewhere close to the standard WWE created in the first place? Why is it "not really fair" to expect them to be able to put on something with the women on par with TNA or Shimmer, two companies without WWE's financial or marketing resources? Currently, the Knockouts and Shimmer Championships are considered the spiritual successors to the WWE Women's Championship. Shouldn't the WWE Divas Championship be that? Even if the Divas Championship isn't the equal to the Women's Championship, is it truly "not really fair" to think it should at least be the equal to the Knockouts and Shimmer titles?

Beth and Nattie are throwbacks to that earlier era, and women the Division can be rebuilt around. The whole reason it fell apart in the first place was the company's obseession with recreating Trish, which is why I bring her up when the subject is what's wrong with the Division. Why did they give up on Mickie, then Melina, then Beth, in the first place? Because they were trying to mold them into being The Next Trish, and lost faith in them when they didn't attain Trish's level of popularity. Hell, even the Knockouts Division came about because of Trish's popularity. She's who they tried to sign at the end of 2006 with the intention of creating a Championship and Division for her. It was known that she had issues with Johnny Ace, so the Jarretts and Dixie Carter thought that may have been the reason she retired, and figured they'd try to get her. It turned out that she had other reasons than Johnny Ace for retiring (though she was very supportive of what TNA wanted to do), so they went for that other Toronto girl from that era.

Now, the Knockouts Division, along with the X Division (I refuse to call it the "X-Treme" Division, but then, no one but the company and it's current Champion calls it that) are what makes TNA worth watching for wrestling fans who have no interest in the Hogan-Bischoff-Flair-Sting Seniors Tour. I'm hoping ROH's TV deal will lead to some exposure for Shimmer, since it's the Shimmer title that promotion recognizes as it's Women's Championship.

Sure, Beth and Nattie aren't the next Trish and Lita. But, build a solid Division around them, and you can have a Divas Championship that can not only compare to the Knockouts and Shimmer titles, but with the financial and promotional resoources WWE has, can rise above them in prestige. Really, the WWE title should be the premiere one, the one every woman wrestler in North America should want. Beth and Nattie could give the butterfly belt much needed cred. Hell, given Nattie's own color scheme, the butterfly belt would look natural on her, like an added accessory.

I know some at this point are asking what the advantage a truly solid Women's Division would be to WWE. It would be the same advantage it, the Tag Team, and Intercontinental titles used to be: Providing a strong midcard to keep people interested whenever Cena and/or Punk aren't on camera, which is most of the time. During the early years of the brand extension, some of the most interesting things happening on Raw and SD involved those titles.

Cena and Punk are doing great stuff right now, but they can't carry the entire show on their own (Yeah, I'm giving Cena some credit, here, as painful as it is for me). If WWE had something like the X Division, wouldn't it be a perfect place for someone like Morrison to shine? A solid tag team division would even give some of the Divas something to do as managers and valets. The Bellas seem made to manage a tag team.

I think it's as simple as, in nearly each of you comparisons you mentioned something that Trish did.

There's really no need to go through each and every storyline she was in, match she had, ring attire she wore, or word she has spoken.

That's all.

perceval wrote:

Shimmer Mark wrote:

I think Tamina would be a fantastic choice to add to the faction. She would fit their role as non-models. I think she has a lot of potential in the ring. I also think this would be a good choice because she would provide a DOD member that could take some losses to give the "model" girls a fighting chance. Because, let's face it, Beth or Natalya could wipe the floor with every one of the other women on the roster. There is nothing believable at all about Kelly Kelly or Eve pinning Beth or Natalya.

I may very well be alone in my opinion here and this isn't meant to be offensive. But, I am getting tired of EVERYTHING being compared back to Trish Stratus. Trish wasn't the best woman to ever compete in the company. Even if she was, she has retired. This is a new crop of women and the constant comparison to the golden days (and Trish in particular) isn't really fair. I can appreciate your knowledge of the Diva's and it is very refreshing. But I would find your long and very knowledgeable posts much more enjoyable to read if they didn't always refer back to Trish when she has nothing to do with the topic.

As I've said before, would we be complaining about Kelly and how believable a Champion she is if our point of comparison was the Sable/Debra/Miss Kitty era?

No, the entire issue of being believable is a result of the 2001-06 group. How is it not "really fair" to compare the current Diva product to what WWE managed to do, then? We always talk about how much better TNA's Knockouts Division is compared to the current WWE Divas, and what was the Knockouts Division their attempt to recreate? Answer: The magic of the 2001-06 WWE Women's Division. The Knockouts Championship was even created for one of the women from that WWE period: Gail Kim.

The 2001-06 group raised the profile of women's wrestling to the point that it inspired the creation of an entire promotion. Maybe you've heard of it. It's called Shimmer.

So, why is it "not really fair" to think WWE should be able to get somewhere close to the standard WWE created in the first place? Why is it "not really fair" to expect them to be able to put on something with the women on par with TNA or Shimmer, two companies without WWE's financial or marketing resources? Currently, the Knockouts and Shimmer Championships are considered the spiritual successors to the WWE Women's Championship. Shouldn't the WWE Divas Championship be that? Even if the Divas Championship isn't the equal to the Women's Championship, is it truly "not really fair" to think it should at least be the equal to the Knockouts and Shimmer titles?

Beth and Nattie are throwbacks to that earlier era, and women the Division can be rebuilt around. The whole reason it fell apart in the first place was the company's obseession with recreating Trish, which is why I bring her up when the subject is what's wrong with the Division. Why did they give up on Mickie, then Melina, then Beth, in the first place? Because they were trying to mold them into being The Next Trish, and lost faith in them when they didn't attain Trish's level of popularity. Hell, even the Knockouts Division came about because of Trish's popularity. She's who they tried to sign at the end of 2006 with the intention of creating a Championship and Division for her. It was known that she had issues with Johnny Ace, so the Jarretts and Dixie Carter thought that may have been the reason she retired, and figured they'd try to get her. It turned out that she had other reasons than Johnny Ace for retiring (though she was very supportive of what TNA wanted to do), so they went for that other Toronto girl from that era.

Now, the Knockouts Division, along with the X Division (I refuse to call it the "X-Treme" Division, but then, no one but the company and it's current Champion calls it that) are what makes TNA worth watching for wrestling fans who have no interest in the Hogan-Bischoff-Flair-Sting Seniors Tour. I'm hoping ROH's TV deal will lead to some exposure for Shimmer, since it's the Shimmer title that promotion recognizes as it's Women's Championship.

Sure, Beth and Nattie aren't the next Trish and Lita. But, build a solid Division around them, and you can have a Divas Championship that can not only compare to the Knockouts and Shimmer titles, but with the financial and promotional resoources WWE has, can rise above them in prestige. Really, the WWE title should be the premiere one, the one every woman wrestler in North America should want. Beth and Nattie could give the butterfly belt much needed cred. Hell, given Nattie's own color scheme, the butterfly belt would look natural on her, like an added accessory.

I know some at this point are asking what the advantage a truly solid Women's Division would be to WWE. It would be the same advantage it, the Tag Team, and Intercontinental titles used to be: Providing a strong midcard to keep people interested whenever Cena and/or Punk aren't on camera, which is most of the time. During the early years of the brand extension, some of the most interesting things happening on Raw and SD involved those titles.

Cena and Punk are doing great stuff right now, but they can't carry the entire show on their own (Yeah, I'm giving Cena some credit, here, as painful as it is for me). If WWE had something like the X Division, wouldn't it be a perfect place for someone like Morrison to shine? A solid tag team division would even give some of the Divas something to do as managers and valets. The Bellas seem made to manage a tag team.

When I said it wasn't really fair to compare them it is because this particular crop of women doesn't have the talent that the other groups have had. Instead of just always saying the other group was better because they had Trish and Lita, I would like to see us move more toward what can be done with what they have. And every one of your posts doesn't have to be a comparison to divas of the past.

ive noticed that too, trish is like god to you lol
me i dont like trish that much, there were far more better female wrestlers than her back in the day, trish was just over hyped.

Cubs love Cougars wrote:

I think it's as simple as, in nearly each of you comparisons you mentioned something that Trish did.

There's really no need to go through each and every storyline she was in, match she had, ring attire she wore, or word she has spoken.

That's all.

What do people keep saying is wrong with the Division, what the Division needs? Well, let's take a look at this threasd...

https://divas-knockouts.aforumfree.com/t30078-is-cm-punk-the-reason-why-the-diva-divison-is-back-on-track

Quote :

The division won't do a 180, unless the girls really improve and/or there's someone who's brought in who has insane charisma.

Quote :

Granted, they don't do it as much now, but I think we could use a new champion who has her own identity - someone to separate herself from the usual Barbie, or monster heel. Someone unique!

Those were your posts. What you're saying they need, without actually using her name, is the Next Trish Stratus. A lot of people here bring up the "failure" of Beth's and Nattie's earlier pushes. Failure compared to what, or should I say who?

My point is that mentality is what has created the entire problem. They kept thinking they needed the Next Trish Stratus, kept putting different women in that position, first Mickie, then Melina, then Beth, then Michelle, and lost faith in them when they didn't equal Trish's level of popularity. Mickie, Melina, and Beth were all certainly talented and unique. And, they all got the short stick for not quite being the Total Package.

Hmm, me defending Cena and Melina in the same thread in one day. Weird...

So, what we need is partly to stop calling for the Next Trish Stratus (even if those aren't the exact words we use) because that was lightning in a bottle. OK, so the matches between Mickie, Melina, Beth, and Victoria didn't create the excitement of Trish vs Lita. It was certainly better, and got more crowd reaction, than Kelly vs the Bellas.

In retrospect, the Division wasn't broken during the Mickie-Melina-Beth period, therefore there was no need to "fix" it. So, rather than obsessing over finding another Total Package, and losing faith in whoever they put the belt on for not being that, just do what TNA did and have plenty of solid women wrestlers working great matches. Beth and Nattie are a great place to start, and to build around.

I don't want the next trish or lita I felt near the end of the careers both had ran their course and it became a joke. I mean Lita personal life I think gave her a longer career cause she cheated on Matt because it seemed she was at the end of the career and the edge push though made her more popular and pulled her out of the failure that was team extreme that seemed to be still pushed even when they split the two apart. I mean both accomplished alot but fact of the matter what I liked McCool more then Trish in the end. I think McCool did a great job in drawing heat from the fans to the point she got everyone complain about her and like some wrestling legends say when your a heel that is perfect cause your doing your job right you don't want to be cheered. Cena failed as a face cause a lot of people hate him and it honestly caused punk to fail as a heel to the point they have made him a face now because the fans hated cena so much they cheered him. My issue with wwe diva is the same it's been with a lot of talent. Nattie wouldn't be in the WWE if she wasn't a Hart and neither would Tamania. I doubt Tamania would be in the business if it weren't for her family. Both really coat tail their family name to fame like Lacey Von Erich. I do respect what Trish did but I never wanted another diva just like her.

perceval wrote:

Cubs love Cougars wrote:

I think it's as simple as, in nearly each of you comparisons you mentioned something that Trish did.

There's really no need to go through each and every storyline she was in, match she had, ring attire she wore, or word she has spoken.

That's all.

What do people keep saying is wrong with the Division, what the Division needs? Well, let's take a look at this threasd...

https://divas-knockouts.aforumfree.com/t30078-is-cm-punk-the-reason-why-the-diva-divison-is-back-on-track

Quote :

The division won't do a 180, unless the girls really improve and/or there's someone who's brought in who has insane charisma.

Quote :

Granted, they don't do it as much now, but I think we could use a new champion who has her own identity - someone to separate herself from the usual Barbie, or monster heel. Someone unique!

Those were your posts. What you're saying they need, without actually using her name, is the Next Trish Stratus. A lot of people here bring up the "failure" of Beth's and Nattie's earlier pushes. Failure compared to what, or should I say who?

My point is that mentality is what has created the entire problem. They kept thinking they needed the Next Trish Stratus, kept putting different women in that position, first Mickie, then Melina, then Beth, then Michelle, and lost faith in them when they didn't equal Trish's level of popularity. Mickie, Melina, and Beth were all certainly talented and unique. And, they all got the short stick for not quite being the Total Package.

Hmm, me defending Cena and Melina in the same thread in one day. Weird...

So, what we need is partly to stop calling for the Next Trish Stratus (even if those aren't the exact words we use) because that was lightning in a bottle. OK, so the matches between Mickie, Melina, Beth, and Victoria didn't create the excitement of Trish vs Lita. It was certainly better, and got more crowd reaction, than Kelly vs the Bellas.

In retrospect, the Division wasn't broken during the Mickie-Melina-Beth period, therefore there was no need to "fix" it. So, rather than obsessing over finding another Total Package, and losing faith in whoever they put the belt on for not being that, just do what TNA did and have plenty of solid women wrestlers working great matches. Beth and Nattie are a great place to start, and to build around.

LMAO The next Trish? I was in no way implying that.

Get off her dick!

And where's Lacey Von Erich, now?

A famous last name will get you in the business, but it won't get you on Raw or SD. Lacey didn't make it past the WWE Development territories, then washed out at TNA, because she just wasn't good enough. Too bad, too, because I was pulling for her. But, then I saw her work.

As for Lita, it was the flack over her personal life that ended her career. Here, at the end of the match, she summed it up. Except for the storyline specific parts, it was pure shoot...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVpDT9WxXMA

The years have been kind to Lita's rep, though. The next year at Raw's 15th Anniversary show, the fans were glad to see her again, and she got that proper sendoff she didn't get when she actually retired. Then, Matt spent the last few years presenting himself in a way to where no one blames Amy at all, any more. It's like how people hated Trip at first for dumping Chyna for Steph, but then stopped blaming him once Chyna made her trainwreck self public.

Cena's the top face for his target market (women and children), Punk the top face for his (men, especially the more hardcore wrestling fans), and Mysterio the top face for his (Hispanics and fans of high flyers). Cena's a heel to the Punk fans, Punk's a heel to the women and children.

Sure, the Cenation and... whatever clever name the Punk fans can be marketed as feel as though they should be catered to at the exclusion of everyone else. But, I think the different target markets each having their own guy to support makes for more interesting shows. You never know what the crowd's going to be like, who they'll be cheering for. I notice how the Smark sites, when reviewing Raw, were gushing one week when it was mainly a pro-Punk crowd, declaring that WWE should "listen to the fans." But the next week when the crowd was mostly pro-Cena? The same reviewers suddenly decided how the crowds responded wasn't worth mentioning, except to bitch about the "stupid marks." Way to be objective in your reporting, guys!

This has translated to the Divas. You have the Beth fans, you have the Kelly fans, and they've been fighting it out on Twitter. The Kelly marks have just plain been flipping out and making their hostility towards Beth fans personal. It's like how Beiber fans get if you don't like him. But then, a lot of the Kelly fans are probably Beiber fans, so it makes sense.

Quote :

"perceval"
What do people keep saying is wrong with the Division, what the Division needs? Well, let's take a look at this threasd...

https://divas-knockouts.aforumfree.com/t30078-is-cm-punk-the-reason-why-the-diva-divison-is-back-on-track

Quote :

Granted, they don't do it as much now, but I think we could use a new champion who has her own identity - someone to separate herself from the usual Barbie, or monster heel. Someone unique!

Those were your posts. What you're saying they need, without actually using her name, is the Next Trish Stratus.

To me, this does not mean he wants the next Trish Stratus. To me, a new champion who has her own identity means someone who has her own identity. If he wanted the next Trish, it would have read "we could use a new champion who is the next Trish Stratus".

I think you have a lot of really good perspective on the business, but everything does not revolve around Trish. There are a few members on this forum that are so devoted to a single wrestler that is makes the rest of us dislike the wrestler more and dislike the poster. I just hope that going forward, you are able to contribute without everything being compared to the divas of the early 2000's. We aren't there any longer and we need to not go back. WWE needs to move forward and create a crop of divas with new stories and new charismas. Not women that are copy cats of prior divas.

very few people are bigger Trish marks than I am but how was Michelle McCool meant to be the next Trish? she became her own person unlike say Candice who was very obviously meant to be the next Trish.

this just goes to show that WWE just can't win with diva fans. we've been begging for more time, more matches and actual storylines but we've been getting more time, an actual storyline and some actual effort being put into the divas every week but people are complaining because they don't like the girls involved. it's LayCool all over again. how about just being happy we're getting an actual storyline instead of random tag matches with no mic time at all

Very well said, Scott.