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| The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times | |
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+4bobby_says_hi Paul Wyatt Angelus perceval 8 posters | Author | Message |
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perceval World Champion
Number of posts : 1445 Registration date : 2011-06-10
| Subject: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Sun 10 Jul 2011, 9:07 pm | |
| Whatever brand name it has at any given moment (Right now it's the WWE Divas Championship), at 76 years of age, it's the second oldest active Championship in Professional Wrestling after the WWE Championship, whose roots go back to 1905. So, a look back at the World Women's Championship belts, and the eras they represented. In 1935, or so the story goes, a muscular young woman asked a wrestling promoter to train her. He told one of his wrestlers to body slam her in an effort to discourage her from asking him again. She body slammed the guy, instead. The promoter then realized he'd found the prospect he was looking for, and trained her. She was Mildred Burke, the first World Women's Champion. Basic, straight to the point, as Championship belts were in those days. It's gold, oval shaped, says what it is, with a photo of the Champ, herself. The belt represented a woman who was as much a Champion as any man. She even took some of their Championships. No, Chyna, you weren't the first to do that. Mae Young did it to, back then. She was the World Women's Champion for almost two decades until her personal and business life came crashing down. She fell victim to the Old Boy Network that ran the National Wrestling Alliance. As a woman, she wasn't allowed into the meetings deciding the fate of her career. She lost her Championship in a screwjob to June Byers. I'm not going into the sordid details (and they were really sordid) as our subject is the belts, here. At least Byers was a legit wrestler, one who's style, very physical where matches would often result in bruises and bloodied faces, was one North America hadn't seen before with women and wouldn't see again until... We'll get to that. In 1956, the Championship went to The Fabulous Moolah. A protege of Mildred Burke, she saw what happened to her mentor first hand, and determined the same thing wouldn't happen to her. What the Old Boy Network of the NWA never saw coming was her business savvy. She had one real friend and ally among the promoters, but that friend being Vince McMahon Sr. counted for a lot. She started a management company, scooping up all the top female talent. She opened a school training all the next top female talent. Therefore, the Old Boy Network couldn't lock her out of meetings. If a promoter wanted some great women on their card, they had to do business with her. Finally, she bought the World Women's Championship, outright. It was her Championship, literally. We now come to the belt that lasted for decades... In 1983, ready to drop the title, she sold the Championship to the promotion that had stood behind her from the beginning, the WWF. The title change was one of the greatest booked feuds in pro wrestling history, maybe even the single most important one. In 1984, pro wrestling had it's niche market, but was, it seemed, never going to regain the peak of popularity it enjoyed in the '50s. Then, thanks to the involvement of one of the biggest pop stars in the world, Cyndi Lauper, the attention of the pop culture world became focused on the Women's Championship being contested between Moolah and Wendi Richter, leading to what became, at the time, the most watched pro wrestling broadcast in history, the Brawl to End It All on July 23, 1984. That feud made the WWF, putting it on the pop culture map. The momentum was kept going by bringing Hulk Hogan and Rowdy Roddy Piper into the storyline , making Hogan a household name overnight. It built to a Pay Per View, something only done in those days for Heavyweight Boxing Championships and big concerts. It was called Wrestlemania. The rest is history. Pro Wrestling as we know it today came about because of the Women's Championship. The belt would go through some slight modifications, with the WWF logo added and the photo of Moolah replaced by a world globe. The longest running belt was built to last, like Moolah, herself. The four flags on it, the US, Canada, Mexico, and Japan, were the biggest wrestling markets in the world, and they all recognized this as the World Women's Championship. It's colors are gold, the usual Championship color, and pink, the color most commonly associated with girls. This represented Moolah's philosophy of always be strong, and be a lady. This storied belt would suffer a sad fate. It was given to a woman who had no appreciation of or respect for the legacy it held, the history, the lineage dating back to 1935. She literally publcily trashed it and every woman who had ever stepped foot in the ring. Her actions also were single handedly responsible for the Montreal Screwjob. But, like a phoenix from the ashes, the Women's Championship rose again, going back to it's 1930s roots.. The new belt's inspiration was that original belt worn by Mildred Burke, gold, oval, straight to the point about what it is. It would go through a few modifications, like the logo change from WWF to WWE, and the addition of a name plate serving the purpose the old photos of the Champ did, but with less vanity. But... There's something different about it. Yes, it's all business, but... It's black instead of the Moolah belt pink. Even the gold plates have black jagged outlines. Nothing ladylike about this belt. It's developed an Attitude.The Women's Championship had been publicly disrespected, disgraced, and humiliated, and it was REALLY PISSED OFF about it. Instead of the usual small lettering saying what it was, it got in your face yelling in huge bold red letters "I'M THE #%&*ING WOMEN'S CHAMPIONSHIP!" before kicking you in the crotch and slamming your head into the annoucers' table. It became the obsession of the Divas, the One Ring. Friendships would end over it. Divas would be bruised, bloodied, their bones broken and muscles torn fighting over it. They woud hit each other in the face with chairs and ladders, even kidnap people and hold them hostage just for a shot at possessing it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75mvKhOa_Ds https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_FdlOWBEo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbnHpg4v_34 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9TZbnT8xjQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr39iXpgp6M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VULeg5rrHHM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWIP9JL2Mug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0HXNSjqoJk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VleFIXCCmoI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B4mxkWrXEPA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pic5LuCd754 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UVyJs-JoyKc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGKUXgINFiA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkwzpMGMojc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJOoCCnom_g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlIw6vy2OIg For 12 years, that belt was the center of so many classic moments, matches, and rivalries. It embodied an era and re-defined what a Diva was. It created a market that made the Knockouts and Shimmer possible. It forged it's own identity while doing the 75 year legacy it carried proud. But, the day came when WWE went PG. So, they couldn't have a belt that whipped Divas into brutal and psychotic behavior and committing felonies to possess it. Not a good example for the kids, you know. So, a new belt was needed, one that might calm the Divas down a bit... There we go... All girly and glamour with a stylish pink butterfly. Now girls... You don't want to bloody and bruise each other's pretty faces by using your fists or hittling each other with objects that could do damage, do you? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpeEoGxuLcA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a6hb0_zNF1k See? Even Gail Kim is restraining herself. It used to be when she'd pop out of nowhere like that, she'd hit you with a wrench in an act of ruthless aggression. But then, it took the Attitude/Ruthless Aggression Era belt a while to really get going, so who knows what the butterfly belt will become, what it will represent, how it will reflect it's time like the ones before it did? Rumors that the Attitude belt is currently kept sedated in a padded cell muttering about the chaos it will unleash when it escapes are unconfirmed. Meanwhile, in the WWE developmental territory, FCW... Aren't we looking retro, today? Training the next batch of Divas using the old Moolah belt design? I approve. | |
| | | Angelus WD Stalker
Number of posts : 11345 Registration date : 2008-08-24
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Sun 10 Jul 2011, 9:16 pm | |
| honestly speaking the Diva title fits them now.
They don't call them women wrestlers they started calling them Divas with Sable and Sunny who weren't great wrestlers but the term diva was always about looks and never women wrestling. I mean really alot of the divas who we consider great wrestlers ain't the best wrestlers and are far from talented. Even your Melina,Gail Kim,Beth,Nattie all ain't the best ever in the ring. Divas were all about being how they look to male fans more then wrestling ever. Even when you look at Trish and Lita they improved but no where near the best. I mean when you compare the old wrestlers to what started in the attitude era it is a joke. WWE focus will always be forever on looks because thats what ranked them the highest in ratings more then wrestling. I never expect a big leap of improvement from the divas. | |
| | | Paul Wyatt NCD aka Name Changing Dude
Number of posts : 18569 Age : 37 Location : Inside of my own mind Job/hobbies : Self-Improving Favorite WWE Wrestler : Antonio Cesaro
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| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Sun 10 Jul 2011, 9:37 pm | |
| Fuckin' ugly ass championship belts.
The only one I like is the one from the 90s, and the last Women's title belt.
The Divas title is a fucking joke.
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| | | perceval World Champion
Number of posts : 1445 Registration date : 2011-06-10
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Sun 10 Jul 2011, 10:14 pm | |
| - Quote :
honestly speaking the Diva title fits them now.
They don't call them women wrestlers they started calling them Divas with Sable and Sunny who weren't great wrestlers but the term diva was always about looks and never women wrestling. I mean really alot of the divas who we consider great wrestlers ain't the best wrestlers and are far from talented. Even your Melina,Gail Kim,Beth,Nattie all ain't the best ever in the ring. Divas were all about being how they look to male fans more then wrestling ever. Even when you look at Trish and Lita they improved but no where near the best. I mean when you compare the old wrestlers to what started in the attitude era it is a joke. WWE focus will always be forever on looks because thats what ranked them the highest in ratings more then wrestling. I never expect a big leap of improvement from the divas. Regardless of what Diva meant originally, now it's the term used for any and all onscreen female talent in WWE, even retroactively, referring to Moolah as "the original Diva." Awesome Kong/Kharma is a WWE Diva. Are you saying her appeal is her looks?Was Trish the greatest technical woman wrestler in history? No. Were Ric Flair, Stone Cold, and the Rock the greatest male technical wrestlers in history? No, no, and no. Not even close. It takes a lot more than just pure technical skill to make a truly great professional wrestler. You need technical skills, in ring psychology, charisma, mic skills, and adaptability, meaning being able to adjust based on your opponent, showcasing your opponent's strengths and masking their flaws. That last one is how Trish accomplished what no other woman, not even the technically superior Molly, could do: Work classic matches with Lita. Notice that all of Lita's truly classic matches, why she's seen as one of the greatest female wrestlers of all time, were with Trish. Molly couldn't adjust to Lita's style. She did the same purely technical mat based match she always did with Trish, Victoria, and Gail. That worked great with those three, as that was their primary style, too. But Lita's style was more spot oriented, and Molly keeping the match her usual one just showed all of Lita's flaws. It was "That was OK, but Molly does that same match much better with Trish or Victoria." Trish adjusted her style to complement Lita's when they worked together. Lita was finally able to do what she did so well, and looked like a million bucks. Trish could also do Hardcore style with Victoria, technical with Molly and Jazz, the technical/spot blend with Mickie, and she could body slam Stacy Keibler in a vat of mud. And, before anyone says "Mildred Burke would never have done that..." It wasn't the company that dubbed Trish "The Total Package." It was her peers, her fellow wrestlers, the Boys. Writers picked up on it. When comparing Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels, people call Bret the greatest technical wrestler of his generation. They call Shawn the greatest wrestler of his generation. And, that's not a contradiction. Shawn was the better overall total package. | |
| | | bobby_says_hi World Champion
Number of posts : 1480 Favorite WWE Wrestler : Evan Bourne, The Miz, Kaval Favorite WWE Diva : Gail Kim, Eve Torres, LayCool Favorite TNA Wrestler : AJ Styles, British Invasion, Ink Inc, Austin Aries, Motor City Machine Guns Favorite TNA Knockout : Angelina Love, Sarita Registration date : 2010-01-21
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Sun 10 Jul 2011, 10:35 pm | |
| if we're being honest, the PG rating has been a saving grace for the divas. nowadays the bikinis and main part of their sex appeal are confined to magazines and WWE.com photoshoots. it's about wrestling now. remember in 2002 when Trish and Victoria had their epic feud? Trish still had to defend the belt in a lingerie match and was in a mud match with Stacy Keibler. there were lesbian storylines on Smackdown as well so at least these days the women are showcased for what they can do in the ring.
people say they only choose divas based on looks. well that is partly true but take a look at most of the guys who get pushed. the majority of them are muscle-bound wrestling shirtless with oil rubbed all over them. the only non good looking guys that get pushed are ones that have the freak factor (Mark Henry, Big Show) or have been there a long time (Kane, Undertaker). if it were all about looks then Rosa, Maryse, Kaitlyn would be in the title picture. they didn't give the title to Brie until she proved she could actually be interesting in the ring. heel Brie was at least believable as a champ instead of bland face Brie last year. Kelly only got the title until she was a proven solid enough worker. she got her test last year and bombed so they waited until she had improved and was the most over girl on the roster. Maryse got the title because she was impressive in the ring for a rookie. then when she got her second title she was a huge disappointment so they took it off her quickly. let's look at all the diva champions:
Michelle McCool - trained for years, one of the best workers on the roster Maryse - impressive in 2008, very charismatic Mickie James - veteran and over Jillian - just a gag but still a wrestler Melina - same as Mickie Eve - still improving on her first reign but she was over when they pushed her Alicia - gifted wrestler and charismatic Layla - over with the crowd and vastly improved Natalya - trained wrestler Brie - kind of the odd one out but still a trained wrestler Kelly - only got the belt when she had improved
the division ain't as stellar as it used to be for sure but it's not as bad as people make it out to be. timing and storylines are the only real issues. and we got a ten minute match on Superstars this week. the divas were in a submission match last week (too short of course but still an improvement over a joke match). creative have proven they can write good feuds - LayCool/Nattie, Michelle/Layla, Kharma while it was starting off so it's really all just a matter of being consistent | |
| | | perceval World Champion
Number of posts : 1445 Registration date : 2011-06-10
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Sun 10 Jul 2011, 10:54 pm | |
| We also need to keep in mind that all their plans for the division and the Championship were being built around Kharma. It was obvious from the start that this was going to build to Kharma vs Beth Phoenix for the Diva's Championship. Kharma's pregnancy meant they had to restart from scratch.
And yeah, the young Ric Flair, Hulk Hogan, HBK, the Rock, even Austin were considered "pretty boys" when they were first coming up. Even Taker, due to his charisma, used to have a large female following that helped his rise to the top.
Of course, as far as the question of whether the women wrestlers are helped by the PG rating... When was Mickie James most over? When she was jumping around in a very short skirt and thong in a lesbian storyline. The PG Era came, and she's now in TNA.
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| | | King Silva King of Kings
Number of posts : 32652 Age : 34 Location : Sacramento, California Favorite WWE Wrestler : ---
Current and Former:
The Rock, JoMo, Ziggler, Edge, Orton, Y2J, Hardyz, + Rhodes! Favorite WWE Diva : -------
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# 1} Lita
# 2} Trish Stratus
# 3} Mickie James
# 4} Gail Kim
# 5} Michelle McCool
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| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Sun 10 Jul 2011, 11:27 pm | |
| I only liked the last WWE Women's Title design.
So classic and perfect.
Shame it was retired instead of the butterfly... | |
| | | Chloe Main Eventer
Number of posts : 587 Age : 39 Favorite WWE Wrestler : Randy Orton
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Hamada Registration date : 2010-10-25
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Mon 11 Jul 2011, 5:49 am | |
| Perceval, you do seem like a major Trish Mark as you bringher up in every post you make. There are other women you can refer to. Also the Divas belt is a completely different entity to the womens belt which is officially retired. Having Madusa solely responsible for the Montreal screwjob is absurd. I think Vince , HBK and even Earl Hebner had a slight role to play! | |
| | | bobby_says_hi World Champion
Number of posts : 1480 Favorite WWE Wrestler : Evan Bourne, The Miz, Kaval Favorite WWE Diva : Gail Kim, Eve Torres, LayCool Favorite TNA Wrestler : AJ Styles, British Invasion, Ink Inc, Austin Aries, Motor City Machine Guns Favorite TNA Knockout : Angelina Love, Sarita Registration date : 2010-01-21
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Mon 11 Jul 2011, 10:14 am | |
| well it was more Bischoff's fault since it was his idea | |
| | | perceval World Champion
Number of posts : 1445 Registration date : 2011-06-10
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Mon 11 Jul 2011, 6:09 pm | |
| - Quote :
- Perceval, you do seem like a major Trish Mark as you bringher up in every post you make. There are other women you can refer to. Also the Divas belt is a completely different entity to the womens belt which is officially retired. Having Madusa solely responsible for the Montreal screwjob is absurd. I think Vince , HBK and even Earl Hebner had a slight role to play!
What do you think made Vince so paranoid? Anyone who doesn't think Bischoff's intention was to have a repeat performance of what was done to the Women's Championship, only with the WWF Championship, is naive. I don't think Bret would have done that, given that, unlike Madusa, Bret respected the history and what these titles meant. But, because of Madusa, Vince couldn't take that chance. It even created a situation with the ECW Championship when their then current Champion, Mike Awesome, signed with WCW without dropping the belt. Paul Heyman knew what Bischoff had in mind and sent in the lawyers before it could happen. Vince, very happy to help stop Bischoff from pulling this crap on another company again, loaned Tazz back to ECW, and Awesome was legally forced back to drop the belt, which Tazz immediately dropped to someone on the ECW roster. Bischoff's plan to have Awesome toss the ECW Championship belt in the trash was thwarted. Years later, Joey Styles spoke for everyone who was there when that took place... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxvGN30cgZ8 And that is the legacy of Alundra Blayze. Awesome's WWE run was screwed due to the fact that Paul Heyman was one of the main forces in Creative diciding who got pushed and who got buried, and he held grudges. Jerry Lynn joined the company and was getting a good push, then Heyman joined and that was it for Lynn. But, if you left ECW on good terms with Heyman, like Jericho, Guerrero, Benoit, and Mysterio, the WWE Championship could be in your future. In fact, let's look at someone who got the monster Heyman Push, who, from the moment they walked in the door, was on our TV screens constantly...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryXyyIuVMVw From the 2;18 - 2;32 mark, a future Champion's first botch. As for bringing Trish up when discussing what's wrong with the Divas... Why do we think there's something wrong, now? Would we be griping about Kelly Kelly if our point of comparison was Sunny and Sable, if that was our expectations of a Diva? No, we gripe about the current women because we are comparing them to one specific Diva. Back in the Summer of 2006, when word of Trish's impending retirement got out, Smark writers said "There goes the Women's Division." My reaction was "Oh, come on. Yeah, she's great, but it's not like she was carrying the entire Division. With women like Mickie James (I was at the time, and remain, a huge Mickie mark), Beth Phoenix, Melina, and others either already on the main roster or ready to be called up from the development territories, the Division will be fine." Looking over the rubble, now... OK, they were right and I was wrong. I can admit that. So, from there, given my interest in bringing it back to the level in popularity it had during the Stratus Era, I've been paying special attention to what she did, how she brought it to the level it reached. It was many things, but since the topic here is the belts, we'll use the belt itself as one example. In those clips in the first post with her... Notice these little subtle things she does with the belt. No matter what else is going on in the segment, she throws in these little interactions with it, loving glances, giving it an affectionte rub or pat. She kept putting the belt over, big. It'd be the center of her promos and backstage segments. She kept stressing that that belt was what defined who the top Diva was... "I was out there taking care of bidness, OK? Because that's what the number one Raw Diva does. She takes care of business. OK, what I did... I went out there and took down the top two contenders... (snap)... just like that." It was supposed to be a big heel thing, the big jealous bully picking on the real Diva, Christy Hemme, who was posing for Playboy. That's how JR kept selling it. Then, going into Wrestlemania, a funny thing happened... The crowds turned on Christy. They decided that looking pretty and posing sexy alone wasn't what made the top Diva, any more. The definition of a WWE Diva changed, right there. Where it once was considered to have begun with Sunny, now Moolah was called "the original Diva" and she and Sensational Sherri were the prototypes. If one was cynical, one might think Trish did it intentionally. And Sunny now deeply resents that. How deeply? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72Rs0BF44Yg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9quxLFeFkM She's trying to copyright "the original Diva," repeatedly calls herself "the total package," and feels the need to insult Sherri's looks and mic skills. Sunny, the Total Package never had to call herself that. Her peers, the boys, did it for her. And, the butterfly belt is supposed to carry the lineage and history that began with Mildred Burke in 1935. That's why they had the unification match instead of just quietly retiring the Women's Championship like they did the Cruiserweight one. The idea was to legitimize the butterfly belt, build a new tradition and identity around it like the pink and gold belts had, and put Michelle McCool on the historic level of Mildred Burke, the Fabulous Moolah, and Trish Stratus. Say what you will about the effort put into pushes, but no one can honestly say WWE didn't repeatedly try to push Michelle to the sky, try to get her on that level, try to make her a legend. | |
| | | Chloe Main Eventer
Number of posts : 587 Age : 39 Favorite WWE Wrestler : Randy Orton
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Hamada Registration date : 2010-10-25
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Wed 13 Jul 2011, 4:10 am | |
| Trish Was the star of the division when it was at it's peak but she wasn't the only reason it was successful . They had a bunch of great women and more importantly writing staff that cared about the women, gave them storylines, difstinct personalities. And time out there to connect with the audience .
If Trish was a diva in this era she'd be the same as all the rest. As for comparing every diva to Trish , I certainly dont as it would be unfair to and ridiculous. In terms of quality then yes I think most divas fans wish things were like they were a few years back but the past is the past. My perspective is there are occassionally glimpses of good stuff which I take hope from and there are some good women in the division who I like so I'll keep watching. | |
| | | perceval World Champion
Number of posts : 1445 Registration date : 2011-06-10
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Wed 13 Jul 2011, 4:52 am | |
| Trish and Lita had some suggestions for what to do, and they didn't put the responsibility entirely on the writers. They think the writers need to come up with storylines, of course, but the Divas need to get themselves involved more.
They argue that if a Diva has an idea to improve a segment, or for their look and character, or for a storyline, bring it up to the agents. They did that. One of the best examples is how Mickie James got over. She came up with, and suggested, the whole obsessed fan angle while she was still in OVW.
They suggest that when you get that one minute segment, make the most of it. They both shined in those little one minute segments. Several great moments in their feud were in those. The quote above where Trish completely redefined what a Diva was and the top Diva's role? One of those one minute backstage segments. You can do a lot in a minute if you play it right.
Non Diva examples... The Stone Cold character, "Austin 3:16," not the creation of the writers, but Austin's idea. The idea for DX came from Shawn and Trip.
I wonder who among the current Diva crop is creative enough to come up with a great idea?
| |
| | | WarGreymon77 Midcarder
Number of posts : 466 Age : 35 Location : South Hill, VA Favorite WWE Wrestler : The Undertaker, Triple H, R-Truth, Booker T, Teddy Long, CM Punk Favorite WWE Diva : 'Kharma', Kelly Kelly, Maryse Favorite TNA Wrestler : Sting, Brother Devon, A.J. Styles, Beer Money Inc, "The Pope" D'Angelo Dinero Favorite TNA Knockout : Velvet Sky, Mickie James, Angelina Love, So Cal Val, Daffney... Registration date : 2011-02-02
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Wed 13 Jul 2011, 4:52 pm | |
| I grew up seeing the 1990s (WWF Attitude) belt, but visually, I like the one with the flags on it. | |
| | | perceval World Champion
Number of posts : 1445 Registration date : 2011-06-10
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Wed 13 Jul 2011, 6:45 pm | |
| - WarGreymon77 wrote:
- I grew up seeing the 1990s (WWF Attitude) belt, but visually, I like the one with the flags on it.
The pink belt certainly deserves more props than it gets, for it's longevity if nothing else. Almost four decades. No other Championship belt can claim that. Even the Big Gold Belt didn't have as long a life. It suited it's eras, from the Golden Age, through the Rock'n'Wresting years, all the way into the New Generation. Those pictures of it on Wendi, Sherri, and company... It just fit the big 80s hair, make up, and outfits. Of course, by the time we came to the Attitude Era, it looked really dated. plus, that ladylike belt just wouldn't have fit the 2000-06 Diva match style, which was about making it all look as real as possible and fighting like the men. The gold belt was perfect for that era, it's only acknowledgement of it's gender being the big red letters saying what it was. Not even pink letters, but red. Now, we're in the PG Era, where the men don't even fight like men, so the Divas sure won't. A lot of what the Divas used to do routinely in their matches is banned, now, for being too violent. Which makes it safe for Kelly Kelly. I mean, could you picture Kelly taking one of those kicks to the head that Trish, Victoria, and Mickie did in the Old School years, or (God help us) pretty much anything from Lita? So, the butterfly belt fits the Little Kid Era. But, for how long? What happens when the time comes that the Divas are allowed to loosen up a bit? | |
| | | WarGreymon77 Midcarder
Number of posts : 466 Age : 35 Location : South Hill, VA Favorite WWE Wrestler : The Undertaker, Triple H, R-Truth, Booker T, Teddy Long, CM Punk Favorite WWE Diva : 'Kharma', Kelly Kelly, Maryse Favorite TNA Wrestler : Sting, Brother Devon, A.J. Styles, Beer Money Inc, "The Pope" D'Angelo Dinero Favorite TNA Knockout : Velvet Sky, Mickie James, Angelina Love, So Cal Val, Daffney... Registration date : 2011-02-02
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Wed 13 Jul 2011, 8:57 pm | |
| - perceval wrote:
- A lot of what the Divas used to do routinely in their matches is banned, now, for being too violent.
When I was but a young tyke, I loved Sable. I thought she was hawt. But when I heard about the clause in her contract that forbade her to take bumps (and she was in the ring with the rough and tough Jackie of all people?), it diminished my opinion of her greatly. Oh, by the way. I'd just like to compliment you on this whole post. It's very well thought out and well written. | |
| | | perceval World Champion
Number of posts : 1445 Registration date : 2011-06-10
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Wed 13 Jul 2011, 10:01 pm | |
| - WarGreymon77 wrote:
- perceval wrote:
- A lot of what the Divas used to do routinely in their matches is banned, now, for being too violent.
When I was but a young tyke, I loved Sable. I thought she was hawt. But when I heard about the clause in her contract that forbade her to take bumps (and she was in the ring with the rough and tough Jackie of all people?), it diminished my opinion of her greatly.
Oh, by the way. I'd just like to compliment you on this whole post. It's very well thought out and well written. Thanks. And yeah, Sable... I'll give her her props for helping bring the Attitude Era WWF into the mainstream through her sex appeal and her Playboy shoot, but that's it. Also, I can see where Vince got the idea that you could just train models into being great wrestlers. The first two experiments resulted in Trish Stratus and Victoria (Why does everyone forget that Victoria was a model turned wrestler? It was even the basis for her first storyline). Two for two, right off the bat. | |
| | | bobby_says_hi World Champion
Number of posts : 1480 Favorite WWE Wrestler : Evan Bourne, The Miz, Kaval Favorite WWE Diva : Gail Kim, Eve Torres, LayCool Favorite TNA Wrestler : AJ Styles, British Invasion, Ink Inc, Austin Aries, Motor City Machine Guns Favorite TNA Knockout : Angelina Love, Sarita Registration date : 2010-01-21
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Wed 13 Jul 2011, 10:46 pm | |
| well at least these days the girls have to train in developmental first. Eve is a good credit to that since she trained for a couple of years before getting in the ring. she's improved vastly from when she first started wrestling in 2009. Michelle McCool as well. Melina was technically a model first as well though she was trained when WWE hired her wasn't she? Maryse as well before her injury
as for divas suggesting ideas to the writers, they do actually do that. Maria said in her interview that she pitched a ton of ideas to creative but they were all ignored. i guess most of them are afraid of getting fired for stepping out of line. but i remember Lillian, Torrie and Candice saying that Vince likes it when you go up to him and give him ideas and showing why he should push you. The Miz and Mickie James are good examples of that | |
| | | perceval World Champion
Number of posts : 1445 Registration date : 2011-06-10
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Thu 14 Jul 2011, 1:20 am | |
| Yep. The worst they're going to say is "No" to whatever idea you suggest.
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| | | Paul Wyatt NCD aka Name Changing Dude
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| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Thu 14 Jul 2011, 10:37 am | |
| Long posts galore! Geez, ppl. | |
| | | X Ultimate Opportunist
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| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Thu 14 Jul 2011, 11:23 am | |
| The only difference being is that Victoria wasn't trained by the WWE. | |
| | | bobby_says_hi World Champion
Number of posts : 1480 Favorite WWE Wrestler : Evan Bourne, The Miz, Kaval Favorite WWE Diva : Gail Kim, Eve Torres, LayCool Favorite TNA Wrestler : AJ Styles, British Invasion, Ink Inc, Austin Aries, Motor City Machine Guns Favorite TNA Knockout : Angelina Love, Sarita Registration date : 2010-01-21
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Thu 14 Jul 2011, 12:40 pm | |
| well she trained down in OVW back when they still had a deal with WWE. she was in WWE first as one of the Godfather's Hos then she went down to train | |
| | | perceval World Champion
Number of posts : 1445 Registration date : 2011-06-10
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Thu 14 Jul 2011, 1:39 pm | |
| Yep. Being signed straight into WWE from the modeling industry, put on some segments on Raw, then sent to one of the WWE developmental territories to train like Victoria doesn't count as working your way up through the indies.
But, with Trish and Victoria, the first two models turned wrestlers, they struck gold.
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| | | WarGreymon77 Midcarder
Number of posts : 466 Age : 35 Location : South Hill, VA Favorite WWE Wrestler : The Undertaker, Triple H, R-Truth, Booker T, Teddy Long, CM Punk Favorite WWE Diva : 'Kharma', Kelly Kelly, Maryse Favorite TNA Wrestler : Sting, Brother Devon, A.J. Styles, Beer Money Inc, "The Pope" D'Angelo Dinero Favorite TNA Knockout : Velvet Sky, Mickie James, Angelina Love, So Cal Val, Daffney... Registration date : 2011-02-02
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Thu 14 Jul 2011, 2:06 pm | |
| If I recall, Stacy and Torrie were models before they joined WCW... but of course, they weren't stellar wrestlers. They were the cause of a lot of horny men tuning in to watch WWE, though. | |
| | | perceval World Champion
Number of posts : 1445 Registration date : 2011-06-10
| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Thu 14 Jul 2011, 2:45 pm | |
| And, as we recall, Vince wanted to train them. Too bad they didn't want to be real wrestlers, especially in Torrie's case, IMO. She had the look and build for it. In that vid of Beth's debut match where she's teamed with Torrie, Torrie looks like this huge Amazon coming out to the ring next to friggin' Beth. Standing there between Trish and Torrie, never has Beth Phoenix looked so... less than imposing. I guess the shift to smaller, less muscular girls helped Beth's push in a way. | |
| | | X Ultimate Opportunist
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| Subject: Re: The Women's Championship belts, and how they represented their times Fri 15 Jul 2011, 3:00 am | |
| I think Torrie got there in the end. Her work before retirement was very good, much better than her usual offence, because she was trying. If she had've got that divas title push, I think she'd be the most over diva on the roster right now (if she didn't get injured) and would be one of the top stars. | |
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